How to make the game more fair but still profitable

Discussion in 'Suggestions' started by Lucar1o, Jul 24, 2017.

  1. Lucar1o

    Lucar1o New Member

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    Hello there, I discovere
    I arrived at your network three hours ago and thought I would leave feedback on how to improve the server, as of right now, in my opinion there are some tweaks to things that can make the game more fair, and to any Admin reading this, I can tell this will sound like a threat, listen, I can clearly see a lot of love and care has gone into work when making this server, but there are some business practises that are not only unfair, but are also hindering your ability to generate revenue from the game.

    Shiny/Aura pokemon are not possible to be redeemed through normal gameplay
    By having it this way, shiny pokemon are no longer a rare, once in a lifetime thing that everybody wants but instead seen as "oh that person spent money" sort of thing. People won't want to purchase shiny pokemon because it's seen as "oh he spent £5 on changing the colour of his pokemon", where, if given a 1 in 8192 chance like in the games (which is still very low), it is now seen as a super rare exclusive item, non paying players now have the chance to get a shiny, and paying players get something that isn't just a paid cosmetic item!

    EV and IV stats are only viewable through a purchasable rank
    EV and IV stats are strictly a competitive pokemon experience, and so, only people that will want to play the game competitively will really care about them. People who play competitively are more likely to spend more time playing, and, hence, by the law of averages, are also more likely to buy things. However if someone is being impeded by a pay wall they will think "what's the point, all I'm interested in is getting the best pokemon, but I can't do it because someone is too greedy?", they'll quit in the first few hours, and because you didn't show them stats for a pokemon. You will miss out on all future purchases they may of made.

    Limited amount of PC pages
    Stopping peoples progress, even at legendary ranks with only 8 pages creates an artificial stop in the players progress makes them feel cheated. If you make pc pages unlock with progress (trainer level, for example, perhaps play test and make it feel limiting but not overbearing), it actually makes the player more happy. Right now, you couldn't fit one of every pokemon up to the current generation, or even the one before that. You should have it fit all generations currently out on the server plus a page, then have players pay more if they want more pages than that, people will, people will have duplicates of the same pokemon running different sets, some shiny pokemon, they'll keep pokemon they did something special with

    Access to events
    This one is just unfair, everyone should be able to participate in events. You could have donors have a little bonus from the event, not major, but something that makes free players think "man I wish I had that rank", not "why do I need a rank".

    Everything else seems fine, please leave your thoughts in the comments below, if you need more donator perks, people love cosmetics.
     
  2. MysticDoesPvp

    MysticDoesPvp Well-Known Member

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    Dont argue against what we have, if shiny/auras are obtainable in the wild the server would start to lose money,
    You can also just spend a couple of bucks to by Pro rank to have access to events, more pc pages, etc... In my opinion everything is fine the way it is.
    You can also check a pokemon's ev and iv's at spawn from one of the professors.
     
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  3. Lucar1o

    Lucar1o New Member

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    You've given absolutely no constructive criticism and haven't addressed my points that argued that it would not have the server loose money. May I point out the two most popular, (and highest grossing) servers don't have any p2w factors at all. If you can check a pokemon's EV/IV at spawn, is it detailed or is it just "this pokemon looks like a fighter", general.
     
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  4. Voultronix

    Voultronix Crazy Active Member

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    Firstly you can check Ivs and Evs without a rank in gen 1 litteraly in the spawn poke centre with the scientist in the poke centre. Secondly I don't think the first few hours are a fair indication of how the server feels or plays. Auras/Shinies although having good stats are on the most half cosmetic and will probably remain that way ( take note Shinies have never been planned to spawn in the wild as Shinies have been around for months). You can catch up to 100% iv pokemon on the wild. 2 days ago a 92% adamant Scyther spawned in the wild , pretty sure that spawn disproves that you need money to get good pokemon. You don't need to fill lull 3 free pages of your pc since you'll never use more than 10-20 pokemon ( if you're good at the game ) and you can just throw out the junk you don't need later. You also don't get a reward for catching every pokemon anyways. I can see you know your stuff but I suggest getting to lvl 30-40 before challenging the existing system which has been here for nearly 6 months. This comes from a long time player who has been playing for just over 4 months. Granted I did purchase a rank but that was for the love of the server.
     
    Last edited: Jul 26, 2017
  5. Lucar1o

    Lucar1o New Member

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    Firstly you can check Ivs and Evs without a rank in gen 1 litteraly in the spawn poke centre with the scientist in the poke centre.
    Noted

    Secondly I don't think the first few hours are a fair indication of how the server feels or plays.
    I think it is. I can tell what the economy of a server is in 20 minutes, in game and purchase wise. The player base and interactivity in an hour. The amount of effort that's gone into the game in 10 minutes, and the vision in 30 etc.

    Auras/Shinies although having good stats are on the most half cosmetic and will probably remain that way ( take note Shinies have never been planned to spawn in the wild as Shinies have been around for months).
    So they have good stats as well? That's even more unfair. It can stay that way, I personally, don't care but my advice to the server is that currently shinies are seen as "Oh look that person spent 5 pounds/dollars etc to make it look different, wooooow", instead of "that's super rare!". Which means people won't want to buy it as much as they would want. It demotivates players too since they know that they will never have a thing which normally is a normal part of the game.

    You can catch up to 100% iv pokemon on the wild

    Yeah and I can win the lottery too, the chances of finding a 100% iv pokemon is 45 (100%) - 0.024% (1 in 4096). The chance of being struck by lightning in your lifetime is 1 in 3000.

    2 days ago a 92% adamant Scyther spawned in the wild , pretty sure that spawn disproves that you need money to get good pokemon.
    [​IMG]
    anecdotal
    You used a personal experience or an isolated example instead of a sound argument or compelling evidence.

    It's often much easier for people to believe someone's testimony as opposed to understanding complex data and variation across a continuum. Quantitative scientific measures are almost always more accurate than personal perceptions and experiences, but our inclination is to believe that which is tangible to us, and/or the word of someone we trust over a more 'abstract' statistical reality.

    Example: Jason said that that was all cool and everything, but his grandfather smoked, like, 30 cigarettes a day and lived until 97 - so don't believe everything you read about meta analyses of methodologically sound studies showing proven causal relationships.

    You don't need to fill lull 3 free pages of your pc since you'll never use more than 10-20 pokemon ( if you're good at the game )

    The whole motto is gotta catch em all are you serious? If I'm good at the game? I don't think you have ever used smogon in your life good sir so don't tell me what quantifies what is good or bad at the game. I'll just copy and paste my argument since you didn't read it.

    "people will have duplicates of the same pokemon running different sets, some shiny pokemon, they'll keep pokemon they did something special with" if you want to play pokemon competitively you need more than just one deck. You need three completely different ones at least and you need to have versions of these with choice scarf or life orbs for swap outs. Depending on if you are playing OU/UU/AG you need completely different sets of items and pokemon since some are banned. Even if you disregard that and just play AG (anything goes) tier which the server most likely uses, that's still a heck ton of customisation to do.

    I can see you know your stuff

    <3

    Granted I did purchase a rank but that was for the love of the server.
    I think this causes you inherent bias.


    I humbly await your reply.
     
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  6. SadAtron

    SadAtron Active Member

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    Seems like you don't know your stuff. How about you spend time playing the server before criticizing it. The server uses most of the money donated to improve on the server.
     
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  7. Lucar1o

    Lucar1o New Member

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    You didn't refute any of my arguments and you didn't make one so your comment doesn't mean anything to the discussion.
     
  8. Lucar1o

    Lucar1o New Member

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    No one so far has actually addressed any of the arguments that I made on why it's good. They've only attacked the idea. Please, if your going to comment with an argument, back it up with evidence.
     
  9. SadAtron

    SadAtron Active Member

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    Events haven't even been released! I do agree the non-ranks should be able to particpate though.
    Alex pretty much said everything else
     
  10. Lucar1o

    Lucar1o New Member

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    Alex?
     
  11. SadAtron

    SadAtron Active Member

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  12. Lucar1o

    Lucar1o New Member

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    I've replied to them with my arguments. Let's see if they come up with a rebuttal eh?
     
  13. Voultronix

    Voultronix Crazy Active Member

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    Well firstly it's clear your intellect will be at a higher level than any further responses. However I do find you rather arrogant as not even the owners or any staff members have a set vision/ mission for the server as it works on assigned short term projects. I know the frustration of people bragging expensive pokemon , it's an inherit feature on nearly All pokemon mmo games. However I have gained 6 aura pokemon without ever purchasing a ln aura or a shiny egg , it is indeed possible to trade up. Yes aura eggs are unfair however the high price acts as a deterrent so not everyone has high iv pokemon , yes granted rich kids/ adults will take full advantage of it but that doesn't necessarily guarantee them good pokemon as the natures of the Pokemon aren't always good. Also this server is extremely capital intensive and I fully understand why there is a p2W element in it
     
  14. Lucar1o

    Lucar1o New Member

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    However I do find you rather arrogant as not even the owners or any staff members have a set vision/ mission for the server as it works on assigned short term projects.
    You've misread my bluntness for arrogance. When I argue I use facts and I try and put things as plainly as possible. Outside of arguments I act nothing like how I present my arguments, hence now.

    I know the frustration of people bragging expensive pokemon , it's an inherit feature on nearly All pokemon mmo games

    No it's not. You don't have expensive money in pokemon because you don't buy them you find them. Also!
    Appeal to tradition (also known as argumentum ad antiquitatem,appeal to antiquity, or appeal to common practice) is a common fallacy in which a thesis is deemed correct on the basis that it is correlated with some past or present tradition. The appeal takes the form of "this is right because we've always done it this way."

    An appeal to tradition essentially makes two assumptions that are not necessarily true:

    • The old way of thinking was proven correct when introduced, i.e. since the old way of thinking was prevalent, it was necessarily correct.
      • In reality, this may be false—the tradition might be entirely based on incorrect grounds.
    • The past justifications for the tradition are still valid at present.
      • In reality, the circumstances may have changed; this assumption may also therefore be untrue.
    However I have gained 6 aura pokemon without ever purchasing a ln aura or a shiny egg , it is indeed possible to trade up. Yes aura eggs are unfair however the high price acts as a deterrent so not everyone has high iv pokemon
    While I agree with high prices as a way to balance the premium economy and the free to play economy. The fact is, is that you shouldn't have to pay for something that is very much a core part of the pokemon experience. Even if it is a tiny tiny tiny tiny tiny chance, the chance for you to find a shiny should still be there. Not only does it increase there value to the people who bought them. (As it is no longer seen as a bought thing rather than a rare thing). It also allows people who do not want to pay to get the same item.

    Granted rich kids/ adults will take full advantage of it but that doesn't necessarily guarantee them good pokemon as the natures of the Pokemon aren't always good.
    Natures? Really? If something has amazing IV's I doubt a neutral or negitive nature is going to impact them that much, it's still overly p2w regardless.

    Also this server is extremely capital intensive and I fully understand why there is a p2W element in it
    I do too. At the end of the day there is a bottom line and server to keep running, but there is a way to do that without screwing over anyone who doesn't hand over their money, and make there experience feel lesser. People think "I hate that I need a rank to actually do anything good", rather than "I wish I had a rank, it looks so cool!". Ranked people should be players who have access to awesome cosmetic items (such as backpacks, man I wish I could say they shouldn't be paid for, they look awesome! but I'm not going to argue that, because it's an inventive and awesome way to implement a non overbearing cosmetic item that pays for the server that everyone will want, there needs to be more of that, and less of "you can't access events because give us money". Positively reinforce people to buy ranks, don't negatively. I know there will be some p2w elements, but they are in horrible ways right now, and need to be changed in the way's I have stated.

    I eagerly await your response.
     
  15. Voultronix

    Voultronix Crazy Active Member

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    I am almost certain that the system will not change as although this p2W system upsets a lot of people it is actually extremely effective as the server continues to run off the income from the buycraft store. However arguing on the matter is like arguing over which political party is better , there is no end to the debate. Additionally it's obvious that's you will undoubtedly continue to use proven theories to support your case. You can continue to rant/ vent but nothing is going to change. If you look further down in the suggestions you are not the first to try this and someone who else even spoke to the main owner on the matter revealed that the system will not change. Unfortunately you'll have to bite the bullet.
     
  16. BranderoS

    BranderoS New Member

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    In your post your talking about admins who might feel threathened. I think you're the one feeling threathened now (looking at your reactions), because there are no 250 ppl shouting 'yes 100% agreed'.

    Shiny's and aura's are not core business, as they are an addition. A shiny or aura is an upgraded/other looking pokemon, from which the normal version can be caught in the wild.

    IV/EV stat lookup through commands are available to ranks, because they've chosen to support the server. This way, they (we) get something back. For a player without rank it is still possible to look status op with an NPC. I don't see a problem with that.

    Limited PC space? Pretty sure the original pokemon games didnt have unlimited space.



    You're talking about no one agreeing on your points. That can happen, happens in real-life too.
     
  17. Lucar1o

    Lucar1o New Member

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    I am almost certain that the system will not change as although this p2W system upsets a lot of people it is actually extremely effective as the server continues to run off the income from the buycraft store.
    It will change if the community comes together and asks for it. People default to this system, not because they don't want to make their system fair, but because they are scared people won't fund a server without that kind of system.

    However arguing on the matter is like arguing over which political party is better , there is no end to the debate.

    How is it like that in any way? Political parties are opinion based. There is objective fact that the system I've proposed would be better for everyone.

    Additionally it's obvious that's you will undoubtedly continue to use proven theories to support your case
    Yeah, but doesn't that show that there may be some legitimacy to what I'm saying?
     
  18. Lucar1o

    Lucar1o New Member

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    In your post your talking about admins who might feel threathened. I think you're the one feeling threathened now.
    1.) This is not on topic at all, how does this add anything to the debate
    2.) What shows I feel threatened? Why would I feel threatened against a random Mine-craft server, and if I felt threatened, why wouldn't I just go to a different server and run away from this one.
    3.) Even if I did feel threatened, how does that anyway impact what arguments I made at all?

    Shiny's and aura's are not core business, as they are an addition. A shiny or aura is an upgraded/other looking pokemon, from which the normal version can be caught in the wild.
    You didn't argue my point about preception of shiny's. I understand how the current system works, and I pointed that out so I could then say how it could be improved.

    IV/EV stat lookup through commands are available to ranks, because they've chosen to support the server. This way, they (we) get something back. For a player without rank it is still possible to look status op with an NPC. I don't see a problem with that.
    Correct that was an error with my post which we've already talked about/rectified in this thread.

    Limited PC space? Pretty sure the original pokemon games didn't have unlimited space.
    There are 23 boxes for the player in the pokemon games. You can use pokemon bank to get 100 boxes. I never suggested unlimited, I suggested not restrictive amounts.

    You're talking about no one agreeing on your points. That can happen, happens in real-life too.
    Way to be a condescending douchebag.
     
  19. Voultronix

    Voultronix Crazy Active Member

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    It seems for the most part that the thing that irritates you is Shinies/auras. In fact you can get a free shiny without buying one with /rewards , look I know it's only one pokemon but quote your words "as long as there's a way to get Shinies" and there is. However no matter what auras will never be able to be acquired without spending money ( that is litteraly guaranteed). And finally you spoke of change happening with the community fueling the change, there has always been small complaints here and there on the P2W system however they stop at complaints. Look at the end of the day like I said this debate can go on forever but unless a large majority of the players speak out against the system, nothing will happen. One thing that confuses me is the fact that you most likely have a job or the money to spend on the server but you just refuse to, which seems unfair to challenge the system when there are little kids who can't spend money on the game but want to but you just won't. You say you like the server and you could just go to any random server but I don't understand why you don't just help the server out ?
     
  20. Lucar1o

    Lucar1o New Member

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    It seems for the most part that the thing that irritates you is Shinies/auras.
    No I've just been replying to what people have been arguing and it takes more to explain why a cosmetic item should be free instead of paid.

    "as long as there's a way to get Shinies" and there is.

    Ok, and everyone gets one? So that one is useless because everyone has one, but only paid people have two.

    However no matter what auras will never be able to be acquired without spending money ( that is litteraly guaranteed)

    I don't care much about auras but imo they should be available to be won at events which normal people could go to.

    Look at the end of the day like I said this debate can go on forever but unless a large majority of the players speak out against the system, nothing will happen
    This is why climate change is going to destroy our world and just because it's technically true doesn't make it right, and just because it's right doesn't mean that, in itself

    One thing that confuses me is the fact that you most likely have a job or the money to spend on the server but you just refuse to, which seems unfair to challenge the system when there are little kids who can't spend money on the game but want to but you just won't
    I don't spend money on it because you are almost forced too. Also, I don't want a rank. I like the challenge of a f2p experience. Notice how I said challenge, not impossible because things are locked behind paywalls. Things can be unlocked slowly with challenge, or you can pay to do it instantly. There are a multitude of reasons why I wouldn't buy a rank but your point is, lets say, even if I had a rank, or the money too, why would I challenge the system, and the answer to that is because other people will just leave the server as soon as they see it's unfair (which many almost certainty have), or they don't have the technique to argue it, or they don't have the willpower. I can stand up for other people.

    You say you like the server and you could just go to any random server but I don't understand why you don't just help the server out ?
    Why would I help out a server that actively takes features away from more than 50% of their players just so they can make money (even though they would make more money with the free to play system I proposed) by giving money to the server I'm supporting that kind of system, and as I said I like to play free to play. Why would I help the server out regardless?