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Discussion in 'Suggestions' started by Brandxn, Jul 5, 2017.

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Do you think the server is P2W?

  1. Yes, they need to balance perks from IRL money with ingame ways to acquire them

    52.6%
  2. No, the server is not P2W in the slightest. 100% i can say that with confidence!

    31.6%
  3. Yes, but it doesn't really matter. Other servers do it, so why not this one?

    15.8%
  1. Brandxn

    Brandxn New Member

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    MCFinest_Danny:

    "Addressing all the "Pay 2 Win" comments. Want to clear this up and shine some light on it.

    First off, I 100% disagree about that comment. Sure I am biased, but here what I have to say. Our Egg system is something that saves Paid players a lot more time versus having to grind it out finding a high IV pokemon. This is the same exact thing Pokémon games do, including Pokémon GO. On top of Paying Customers saving time, they also have rarer cosmetic look to those Pokémon. Pay 2 Win would be if free players could not get what Paid Players can get. If someone can PROVE to me you cant get a 75%+ IV pokemon in the wild, then you are right that it is pay 2 win.

    Practically ANY free to play game offers things to buy that save you time. Clash of Clans, Clash Royale, any minecraft server. Really I can't think of one free game that doesn't do that. Many of you who make the argument saying CSGO is just cosmetic. Well guess what, you are paying $20 to play CSGO upfront. We don't charge a thing and still have salaries and bill to pay :p I would appreciate those who are complaining now see our valid point of view on the situation and appreciate it being free and able to do all the main components that paid players get. Yes, staying free makes it harder to get the same IV as a paid customer, but that entirely makes sense.."

    Oooook, this is a very controversial topic that has been brought up time and time again on most every minecraft server, and most definitely on this one. Just making this clear from the get go, I am not hating on the server in any way, shape, or form in this Thread. I am just stating facts about the server and how they correlate to what Danny has said in this post (which I remind everyone is from April of 2017).

    I Will be taking bits an pieces from his post and relating them to in game features starting now:
    1."First off, I 100% disagree about that comment"
    -I'm sorry Danny, but just from the start we have some problems. Saying you 100% disagree about P2W on a server that takes in money and gives perks/items in return causes a huge dilemma. The fact of that matter is that people can spend money and get something other players wont get, in return. Just that in and of itself gurantees that the server will have P2W features considering they are acquiring items by paying IRL money and not doing any of the grind (which I might add is the "play" of the server as there is currently no other goal to the server).
    2."Our Egg system is something that saves Paid players a lot more time versus having to grind it out finding a high IV pokemon."
    -Agreed, but that's not all it does. It allows players to acquire Pokémon that can not be acquired through normal ingame playing. Yes, you can say all you want that there is a trade feature that allows players to get pokemon from these eggs even though they haven't paid, but ultimately someone had to buy the egg to acquire that pokemon (Kabuto, Omanyte, Aerodactyl, and Porygon). Therefore, the only way to acquire these pokes is from IRL Money, and that makes them a P2W feature.
    -The IV of pokemon is something I've debated with a lot myself. Recently, I've found the IV of pokemon to be a lot higher than they used to be, ranging anywhere from 65%-75% at the highest while being caught from the wild, but even to this day, the highest thing I've caught is around an 80% Gastly. I'm not gonna go out there and say that you can only acquire 90% IV pokemon in eggs, because I'm sure you can most likely get them in the wild, but the rarity is unbelievable. Even Pokémon GO who is known for their underhanded P2W tactics allows you to acquire 90% IV pokemon quite easily through normal gameplay, and no IRL money required. I can go outside today and manage to find a 90% IV pokemon in an hour or less. I definitely feel the percents of pokemon in the wild should be raised at some point, but I will not stress this point to much considering the trade feature is a reliable way to acquire these egg pokes.
    3."This is the same exact thing Pokémon games do, including Pokémon GO."
    -Wait wait wait wait wait.... what? This quote comes directly after the last one talking about their egg system and how it allows Paid Players to acquire higher IV pokes through this system. Um, yea pokemon come out of eggs in pokemon GO with Higher IV's but this does not relate to paid players... xD Any player can acquire eggs in Pokémon GO, and can buy egg incubators with coins they earned through gyms. The only way to acquire eggs at the time he made this post was through IRL money, and even now the only other way is through voting or the weedle challenge, which gets you the worst egg of them all and that's it. And all other pokemon games besides Pokémon Go do not require you to spend money for eggs with higher IV pokes... they don't even relate honestly.
    4."On top of Paying Customers saving time, they also have rarer cosmetic look to those Pokémon"
    -Um no? You cant buy pokemon in Pokémon GO or any other pokemon game that are shiny through IRL money... You, and maybe some Pixelmon servers, are the only ones who do that xD. Shiny pokemon are meant to be found in the wild, and are supposed to be a lucky and heart stopping encounter that keeps the player interested in grinding the game, because they worked hard for hours grinding until they acquired that shiny poke. You guys just put it on your online shop and say ,"Hey, pay me 10 bucks and you can get a shiny :D". While I understand the server needs an income, what harm would it be to allow shinies to spawn in extrememly rare intervals like Dratini's/Larvitar's? It gives another aspect to the game to keep the players interested.
    5."Pay 2 Win would be if free players could not get what Paid Players can get."
    -Agreed! yet there is more to it that that. Pay 2 Win means just that, "Pay (Irl Money) to achieve the goal of whatever it is you are playing". I really hate to bring this up, but honestly it has to be. Level 30 boosters are the most P2W thing you have added to the server yet. People can literally spend 10 bucks and reach level 30... Me and many other players spent a month or longer grinding that out in the early days when this post was made, and now new payers don't have to grind at all for a free pass to be level 30. The fact that this gets you to Jataro is irrelevant. You made it to where people can buy their way through the game straight up. Considering the only "goal" of the game so far is to train pokes to higher levels and get your trainer level to the highest level possible, you just gave many players a free pass to complete the goal of gen1 (lvl 30) all that's left is to acquire strong pokemon and train them! O wait... you also sell eggs with high IV pokes and you sell rare candies?! All the point of the game literally is gone after that point. o_O
    6."If someone can PROVE to me you cant get a 75%+ IV pokemon in the wild, then you are right that it is pay 2 win."
    -I can prove that you can get 75+ IV pokemon in the wild, so yea, you are right on that point, but that's not the only feature that makes the server P2W therefore the second part of this statement is invalid and unnecessary.
    7."Practically ANY free to play game offers things to buy that save you time. Clash of Clans, Clash Royale, any minecraft server. Really I can't think of one free game that doesn't do that."
    -Can't argue with that point. It's true that free to play games now a days have this thing called "Micro Transactions" that allow them to make far more profit that they ever would have by just making you buy the game straight up. The problem is just that. It's a money ploy. To associate yourselves with other games such as those makes you out to be the P2W server people accuses you of :confused:
    8."Many of you who make the argument saying CSGO is just cosmetic. Well guess what, you are paying $20 to play CSGO upfront. We don't charge a thing and still have salaries and bill to pay"
    -I honestly haven't heard this comparison yet, but I really don't remember what was going on at this time, so I wont argue with it. This quote goes well with what I said in number 7.
    -I would also like to point out at this point, that I am thankful that you guys have not just stolen our money and used it for personal gain. I believe you guys have spent the money we have donated quite well by using it in advertising and further development on the server. Thank you for keeping this server a fun place to play and hangout with friends who we may never have known before. <3
    9."I would appreciate those who are complaining now see our valid point of view on the situation and appreciate it being free and able to do all the main components that paid players get."
    -I appreciate you taking the time to answer us in response to our questioning on the P2W aspect of the server, and I understand the points you have stated on why it isn't P2W. While I cant say I agree with all the points you made, I can agree to the fact that you stuck out your hand to us as players and gave us your side of the story as to why there are so many purchasable items in the game. Once again I would like to point out the fact that I am not hating on the server by any means, I love this server and have supported it quite a lot financially throughout the time I have been playing it. I just believe this post does not clear up all the problems the server has on the P2W side of things, and honestly, no post will until the server makes changes itself.
     
  2. Brandxn

    Brandxn New Member

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    Phew that's over with, thought I would just be nitpicking little pieces here and there, but I pretty much commented on all the lines but one in the post xD.
    Once again I thank the Owners, Admins, Devs, and all staff on PokeFind. This server is a fun place to play, but as many other minecraft servers, it falls victim to being P2W. I believe the creators of the server are constantly seeking to improve the server in these aspects with the recent introduction of Boosters and Challenges to allow people who can not financially support the server to acquire the same benefits that those who can do. The server still has a lot of work to do though, so I will make a list underneath showing things I feel need the be balanced more for non-paying players.
    1.Egg System- works fine, but normal players need to be able to acquire the higher eggs in some way. Doesn't matter if it's a .001% chance in a pokestop or through quests from npc's. This feature HIGHLY impacts the game for all players in both negative and positive ways. Let's make it all positive pls :p
    2.Legendaries- Idk why there hasn't been a legendary event in both Pokefind and Pokémon GO, but pls, when one man has 3 Mewtwos and dominates the Cbattle community because of it... We have a problem.
    3.Perks with ranks-
    -Nickpokes- Why cant normal players nick pokes with coins or something? that should've been added ages ago honestly. Just make it to where they cant name them different colors or something (that's cosmetic), because it impacts the game based off the fact that they cant evolve Umbreon or Espeon without it lol.
    -Fly- Normal players can not fly at all
    -Pheal/PC- While normal players can access things that do the same, there should really be a way for all players to be able to acquire these commands in game. Try tokens, they don't seem to have much of a use atm . The reason I say this is because you said yourself, "Practically ANY free to play game offers things to buy that save you time.""Our Egg system is something that saves Paid players a lot more time versus having to grind it out". The whole point of buying these items in the online store is to save players time, but one funny thing about these other games you compare to. They all have ways that allow you to get these purchasable perks by only playing and not by having to spend the money. Gems in Clash of Clans, Coins in Pokémon GO, etc.
    4.Booster Elixirs- I feel so cheap when people say "ty" to me activating a booster... Because in all honesty, it isn't for them, it's for me... Giving more of a boost to the player who activated them is a fine way to make people purchase them, but that is something normal players will never experience because they can NOT acquire boosters without spending money.
    5.Lucky Eggs/Exp Shares/ Rare Candies- Once again we are back to more items that can only be acquired through spending money. I'm sorry, but can these items be gotten in any way in game? Let me guess, trading with other people who have spent money? welp, there's the problem, another thing that can only be gotten through someone paying IRL money to the server... Need an ingame way to acquire these as well.
    6.Lvl 30 Booster- No, just no.
    7.Exclusive pokemon from eggs- I get the idea, but if normal players cant get them then it's P2W.
    -Fossil Pokes (altho now you can get them through weedle challenge)
    -Porygon
    -Baby Pokes
    8. Allow players to buy more pc storage space
     
  3. Voultronix

    Voultronix Crazy Active Member

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    In glad that both posts so far have supporting references so far and I commend you guys on pointing that out. But at the end of the day you guys forget that their are currently 3 admins , 4 developers and a full on modeling team not to mention youtube contracts a website and a server that can hold up to 3000 players!! The minute more things become available to players for free the less money the server will make , if shiny pokemon could be acquired in the wild most people wouldn't bother to buy them because why pay for them if you can get them for free. Some people forget that this server wouldn't exist if it wasn't for donations. I bought a rank like some of you guys and I certainly wouldn't have bought it if I could aquire everything by using in game currency. The server has to be pay 2 win , why? Because who would of created pokemon with a plugin for free ? Certainly not skilled developers ... I understand the urge to fight it but please understand that if more things could be acquired for free the number of Devs, modelers and updates would start slowing down
     
  4. Brandxn

    Brandxn New Member

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    Voultronix, I didn't forget the number of staff at all... and I said that in the post (brought up the staff involved). Sure the server needs to be supported with money, and 100% it would happen. I didn't say the commands would be cheap by any means, but if you don't want the server to be considered P2W then there needs to be a way to acquire these perks ingame. Now, Id also like to bring up a certain fact. If you are one of the people who voted for the the "No" answer in the pole, your comment goes against your vote. You said the server has to be P2W in your comment, yet the vote says you believe the server is not P2W in the slightest. Now idk if you are the one who did or not honestly, but if you are that was really a bad call... I mentioned in my post how they are using the money wisely, and I'm glad they are, but what you are forgetting, is that the server already has things available by ingame ways (ie. eggs, and bikes) but guess what, people buy the stuff anyways. You saying that you would grind to get the perks could be completely opposite for other people, and honestly maybe even for you. I've been an Admin on a server myself and Ik the cost it take for the different positions that need to be filled, but that doesn't change the fact that the server has way too many P2W features, and since that is the case people should be voting for one of the "Yes" answers depending on how they feel about the matter. The Shiny thing you mentioned is completely flawed xD Shinies would spawn once a day, and there is no telling what the shiny would be, that means it could be any poke with any iv... You really think people wouldn't buy shiny eggs still? xD
     
  5. Voultronix

    Voultronix Crazy Active Member

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    Firstly yes , people wouldn't buy Shinies, epic eggs are barely bought anymore because guess what? A lot of people already have tonnes of larvitars and dratinis and the gen 2 starters were acquired in the gen 2 eggs where there was a 40% to get a gen 2 starter. Apparently eggs actually earn the most for pokefind so making eggs more accessable lowers income something that should never be lowered . Secondly by making eggs more common the lower value of the Pokemon caught in the wild which is already being lowered. And buying commands .... that is just asking to loose money, no one would spend so much on these ranks if they could get the perks for free. The experience boosters.. I actually enjoyed gen 1 more than gen 2 so actually those skipping are missing out on the experience and having fun in gen 1. Look if you're wondering why I'm defending pokefinds money making techniques it's because minecraft servers can close at any time. Rather them make a profit then it not existing. And at the end of the day their not gonna fix the pay 2 win problems. They are going to being doing legendary events but that's only the tip of the ice berg
     
  6. Brandxn

    Brandxn New Member

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    Why wouldn't the people buy Shinies?... They have a MUCH better chance to receive a shiny they actually want through the eggs that they would from wild? Isnt that the exact reason people buy eggs in the first place? xD They buy eggs so they can get a pokemon that is normally hard to get (or in this case, impossible). Once again I bring up the fact that the "point" of the game so far is Grinding, Completing Pokedex, and Trainer Level. All of that CAN and some of it HAS to be bought in order to be achieved, therefore the "point" is unreachable without spending money or someone else doing the spending for you. The fact of the matter is that the server is P2W. Every point you make does not argue against that fact, just that it should be P2W. Honestly, the approach you are taking is very commendable, but is going to be looked down upon by most all other "players" the people who actually make the game advance. If you don't appease the people then the game dies anyways. What I'm saying is to offer those who actually "play" the game a chance at the same OP stuff people who buy their way to victory acquire. Your comment about Minecraft Servers dying at anytime is correct, but there are multiple ways it can die, and not giving the people what they want is one of many. Providing money to keep the server going is of less importance considering people WILL still donate. The minute this server does a 50% off sale they will make thousands, it's inevitable no matter if they make things available ingame or not. Also, did you vote for the "no" option or not, I would like to know.
     
  7. Therobodavo

    Therobodavo New Member

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    I just wanna say, danny posted that after having a long discussion with me regarding aura eggs having 90% iv, cause I kept saying how the server isn't balanced and it really looks like the server is P2W.

    As of late, Danny has made it clear what he wants the server to be like. He feels as if the server being P2W is good because it allows the server to give back to the players who supported the server financially.

    He has also stated that regarding the P2W aspects, tournaments which have cash prizes will be balanced more and have more restrictions.

    I personally agree that having a bigger sale would bring in more money (even if just with items/eggs), but who knows why they won't do this.


    At the end of the day... deal with what Pokefind wants. I hate that it's P2W, but Danny strongly believes it's justified, so who are we to tell him to change that.
     
  8. Brandxn

    Brandxn New Member

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    So he told you that 3 months ago? And we still haven't received a tournament yet with any cash prizes... And he also admitted to you that the server is P2W even though he clearly states that he is 100% positive the server isn't P2W in that post? Also "who are we to tell him to change that", we are his playerbase xD The main point I'm trying to get across in this post is that the one he did on Discord needs some major editing. Tell us how it is, not how you want it to be. I love the work Danny has done on the server and believe it has huge potential, but they need to acknowledge the players who love the server and support it to the best of their abilities even though they don't have the money to offer. All in all, this is the Staff's decision, yes, but I think the "players" of the server deserve a say in the matter as well.
     
  9. Therobodavo

    Therobodavo New Member

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    Oh I completely agree, but trust me I've tried. At some point you gotta understand that they want the server to be one way, and you want it another way.
     
  10. FrogKing_jaygah3

    FrogKing_jaygah3 New Member

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    I especially like this post because its coming from a legend rank
    It makes it seem unbiased if a non-rank were to write it
     
    Last edited: Jul 5, 2017
  11. Voultronix

    Voultronix Crazy Active Member

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    It's true I'm coming from a perspective many players will dislike however I can see a rapid decline in sales the minute things come for free. Look everything today in life is pay 2 win including a lot of aspects of life , almost every game these days has micro transactions and statistically games like cod make more money from selling in game transactions then from sales , it's how the modern gaming industry works. I completely understand why Danny wants the system to be how it is as his expenses are higher than we think
     
  12. Therobodavo

    Therobodavo New Member

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    The modern gaming industry has micro transactions, but for the most part it's only used for saving a little time, and to save a ton of time it gets really expensive. Regarding buying "crates" (eggs for pokefind) those are usually only cosmetics... and when it's gameplay affecting stuff the communities usually hate it. There's something called balance, which is really lacking.
     
  13. Voultronix

    Voultronix Crazy Active Member

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    In my opinion by having legendary events will definitely smooth out the playing field no matter what the nature or ivs of the legendaries
     
  14. Brandxn

    Brandxn New Member

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    I mean, they have already promised to do that ages ago. That only solves one problem of many :p I'm surprised you would want them to do a legendary event though considering that's the most expensive thing on their buycraft. Does that not get them tons of money? I mean we all know some Legend ranks who have bought the rank multiple times over :eek:
     
  15. Voultronix

    Voultronix Crazy Active Member

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    There's no point arguing anymore , Danny likes the system how it is and that's how it will stay. You don't have to agree with it ( which you've shown XD) but it's here to stay. You could just play pixelmon ( I heard most servers are quite balanced)
     
  16. Therobodavo

    Therobodavo New Member

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    Yes, like I said multiple times xD
     
    Voultronix likes this.