Competitive Battling - The guide (Well, probably half of it xD)

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  1. MeatFeastMan

    MeatFeastMan Member

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    Took me a few days but I'm finally done! The guide to playing pokemon competitive pokemon on pokefind. Hope you guys (Particularly the people new to competitive) found this useful! :)

    Introduction


    So I started about a week back, I'm level 30 (After some hard work) and I'm busy working on a competitive team for tournaments in the future. After looking through the options, I found that the lack of tms/hms and the moves through level-up offer a unique experience (I'm sure tms/hms are happening in the future). I'm guessing a lot of you are unsure on what to use in your teams, so I decided to check through things, considering what may and may not be good for winning matches on the server. I'll evolve this as I learn more about the way pokefind's competitive environment works. I'm sorta decent when it comes to competitive battling, so I'm gonna try and help out here. I will update this as time goes on and new generations come along on the server. So here goes.


    I'm gonna start off and explain some basics (For those of you who don't have that great knowledge when it comes to competitive battles). Every pokemon has 6 key stats. HP (Health/hitpoints, whatever you wanna call it), Attack, Defense, Special Attack, Special Defense and Speed. These stats determine how powerful a move is, how strong defensively your pokemon is, and probably the most important thing of all: Who goes first in a battle.

    How the speed stat works


    This is influenced by a pokemon's speed stat. The idea is simple: The pokemon with the higher speed stat will attack first, and the lower speed stat will attack second (That is not taking 'priority' into account, which we will talk about soon). This is extremely important in competitive battling, as a pokemon who has higher attack and/or special attack can be beaten by a pokemon with higher speed, providing that the higher speed pokemon has enough firepower to take it out. This therefore comes to the conclusion that power isn't everything.


    Note that Defense, Special Defense and HP stats are used to get around the use of the speed stat and keep the game balanced (We will talk about that later also)

    Natures

    The stats of a pokemon may also be affected by its nature. Natures are used as a way of increasing one stat and decreasing another (HP may not be increased or decreased through natures). The increases and decreases are set to 10%, so for example, a nature that increases Attack and decreases Defense will have it's attack base stat increased by 10% (So 80 to 88 for example) and it's defense base stat decreased by 10% (So 80 to 72). Some natures do not have any increases or decreases and will therefore keep all stats at their base number.


    You can see a list of all natures in the game using this link kindly provided by Minutes: http://forums.pokefind.co/index.php?threads/what-natures-do-and-mean.322/

    Ivs and Evs

    Another crucial part of competitive battling is Evs and Ivs. Evs stand for 'Effort Values' and you can find more about those in this post which explains evs quite nicely, created by ZoraqPlays: http://forums.pokefind.co/index.php?threads/where-should-i-train-effort-values-evs.599/

    Ivs stand for 'Individual Values'. You can have up to 31 in each stat, which means that a pokemon can have up to 186 ivs. However, Ivs cannot be trained like evs can. When you catch a pokemon, it will have it's own unique set of ivs and these CANNOT be altered like evs can. Think of ivs as genes. You can't change them and you are born with them. Evs are like your muscles. They can change in size, looks etc. At level 100, each iv is equal to 1 whole stat point.

    It is fairly important that you have the best stat pokemon possible. Therefore, it is advised that you search heavily for a pokemon with a good nature (This can vary depending on the pokemon) along with 20+ ivs in each of the most important stats for that particular pokemon (So if your pokemon relies on having a high special defense and hp, you'll want it to have a suitable nature and 20+ ivs in special defense and hp)

    Now using the above knowledge of natures, ivs/evs and the speed stat, I have created a list of the highest speed stat pokemon below on pokefind(Of base 100 speed and above). Note that this is with each pokemon at a speed iv of 31 (Highest) and full evs invested in speed with the pokemon at level 100:
    In order of highest to lowest speed. Non-speed natured pokemon do not have their speed decreased by nature and are set at base speed.

    Speed Tier List:

    Speed Natured Electrode: 416

    Speed Natured Jolteon/Aerodactyl/Mewtwo: 394

    Electrode: 379

    Speed Natured Dugtrio/Alakazam: 372

    Speed Natured Persian/Starmie: 361

    Jolteon/Aerodactyl/Mewtwo: 359

    Speed Natured Gengar/Tauros: 350

    Speed Natured Kadabra/Rapidash/Scyther/Electabuzz: 339 (Speed tie with dugtrio/alakazam)

    Dugtrio/Alakazam: 339

    Persian/Starnie: 329

    Speed Natured Charizard/Fearow/Raichu/Ninetales/Tentacruel/Dodrio/Voltorb/Zapdos/Mew:328

    Gengar/Tauros: 319

    Charizard/Fearow/Raichu/Ninetales/Tentacruel/Dodrio/Voltorb/Zapdos/Mew: 299

    So, when looking at this list, what do we gain from it? Well, there are a few things. The first and most obvious thing is that we know that electrode is the quickest pokemon on the server. We also find that speed natured pokemon can outspeed pokemon with higher base speed stats which have no natures. This is very important. Natures may not seem that great at first, but it can turn the tide between winning and losing battles. The most important thing to take from these numbers is that high speed stat pokemon are great for playing offensively, as you can outspeed your opponent and hit first, allowing you to win fights you wouldn't normally win.

    Priorities

    So then, what in the world is 'priority' might you ask? Every move has a priority. Priorities are basically a speed stat for the MOVES that you use to attack with or apply a status effect with. The pokemon mechanics check for priority before speed stat, meaning that a higher priority move than your opponent's will always hit first regardless of the speed stats of the two pokemon. This is essentially a way to get around the speed stat of a pokemon. Most moves will have a priority of 0. Some moves have a priority of –1 or below, in which case they will move last, again regardless of the speed stats of the two pokemon. And of course, some moves have a priority of +1 or above, in which case they move first. A move with priority +2 will move first over +1 and so on and so forth. For more information on priority, you can use this link: http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Priority

    So for example, If I attack with an electrode, and my opponent uses extreme speed with his arcanine, because extreme speed has a priority of +2 and my move has a priority of 0, speed stats are not taken into account, and arcanine will instead hit first.

    How much damage am I going to take?

    Damage is calculated by comparing a few things. The first thing is by determining the type of move used. Attacks can either be Physical Attacks or Special Attacks. Each attack will have a certain amount of power attached to it, so for example, crunch has a power of 80. The higher the number, the harder it will hit (Sort of).

    The damage of a physical attack is determined by the power of the move, but more importantly, the attack stat of your pokemon and the defense stat of your opponent's. Similarly, the damage of a special attack is determined by the power of the move, the special attack stat of your pokemon and the special defense stat of your opponent's.

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    So uh, that's the basics over with. What we learn from all this is that pokemon that are quick and hit hard are good for offensive purposes and those with high defense and/or special defense along with a decent hp stat are great for defensive purposes. Keep that in mind for later on. However, there's one HUGE thing I haven't mentioned, and that is typing. The pokemon's type is by far the most important factor in competitive battling.

    For types, weaknesses and resistances, and because I'm lazy and I'm kinda asleep at the time of writing this, refer to this for information as well as a extremely important type chart (READ IT): https://pokemondb.net/type

    If you have any questions about the above, be sure to ask below and I'm sure either myself or someone else who has some knowledge will be able to assist.

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  2. MeatFeastMan

    MeatFeastMan Member

    Joined:
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    Now for the bit you all actually came here for.....what's good and what isn't? Well, there is no true answer to that question (Except for mewtwo, although I'm not counting him) but there are some guidelines to follow.

    First of all, you need to understand the role a pokemon can play. There are a few simple roles a pokemon has the job of doing, and depending on the way you ev train the pokemon, the movesets you intend to use and the base stats that it naturally has, this varies. I'm gonna take you through the roles that pokemon can have.

    Physical Attackers/Sweepers

    Physical attackers are basically just pokemon that have a high physical attack stat (Typically about 100 base attack or more) and their job is just to hit as hard as possible. A physical sweeper is similar to a physical attacker but may have slightly less physical attack but be able to 'sweep' the enemy team due to it's high speed stat and therefore ability to hit first.

    An example of a physical attacker would be Pinsir due to it's high 120 base physical attack stat.

    Similarly, tauros is a great example of a physical sweeper. He deals less damage than Pinsir but makes up for that with a nice balance of a high 110 base speed stat along with a still impressive base 100 attack stat.

    Special Attackers/Sweepers

    Basically just the same as above, except these utilize the special attack stat rather than the physical attack stat.

    A good example of a special attacker and/or sweeper would be jolteon. He has an awesome 130 base speed stat and a fairly good 110 base special attack stat, meaning in most situations he will hit first while hitting hard.

    Mixed Attacker

    A mixed attacker is uh...you guessed it, a pokemon that can utilize both special attack and physical attack stats well.

    An example would be dragonite due to it's astronomical base 134 attack stat and decent 100 special attack stat. (Yes, everybody's favourite pokemon, except from me)

    A general rule for picking offensive pokemon is that their base speed stat must be 80 or above (There are a few exceptions), because otherwise it will not outspeed the necessary pokemon that it needs to.




    Now for defense...

    Physical Wall

    Simple. A pokemon that relies on a high physical defense stat and normally a high hp stat, which allows it to take big hits from physical attackers while dishing back enough damage to stall out the opponent.

    A good example would be Cloyster. It has a crazy 180 base defense stat which allows it to take most physical attacks thrown at it.

    Special Wall

    The above, however it utilizes the special defense stat rather than physical defense.

    An example would be Chansey who has an absolutely rediculous 250 hp stat along with a high 105 special defense stat making it very difficult to take down (Fun fact: Even mewtwo can't ko it in one).

    Mixed Wall

    I think you get the idea by now. A mixture of the two defensive stats.

    For now, I wouldn't say there are any particular examples of this on the server.

    (There are more specific roles such as support/utility and so on, but these are the main ones)

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  3. MeatFeastMan

    MeatFeastMan Member

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    So then, what are the 'best' pokemon on the server? Again, no exact answer, but I can certainly guide you. First thing is to avoid pokemon that aren't fully evolved. That includes stuff like golbat, which evolves into crobat (Crobat is not on the server), and bulbasaur which evolves into venusaur (venusaur is on the server).This is due to lower stats of the non-fully evolved pokemon. So uh, I'm gonna put each pokemon into a tier. The tiers go from A (Best) to D (Worst). This is taking into account that you use them for the correct competitive roles based on their stats, movesets etc. Note that this isn't perfect and I'm completely happy with people sharing their opinions on where I place pokemon in this list, and if I agree with your points, I'll consider changing their positions. This is based on what I feel pokefind works best with. So here goes:

    I am excluding mewtwo from this for obvious reasons. When competitive battling is introduced, I suggest banning it from competitive play. Every other pokemon is completely fine on the list however. Remember there are no tms/hms, so this is taken into account when making the list. I'm also not thinking about the 'nonsense strategies' such as endeavor/quick attack on raticate for example. They are taken out of the equation.



    A

    Venusaur

    Arcanine

    Alakazam

    Slowbro

    Magneton

    Cloyster

    Gengar

    Starmie

    Gyarados

    Vaporeon

    Jolteon

    Aerodactyl

    Snorlax

    Zapdos

    Dragonite

    Mew

    B

    Charizard

    Blastoise

    Fearow

    Raichu

    Nidoqueen

    Nidoking

    Clefable

    Vileplume

    Dugtrio

    Golduck

    Poliwrath

    Machamp

    Victreebel

    Tentacruel

    Golem

    Dodrio

    Muk

    Hypno

    Exeggutor

    Hitmonlee

    Hitmonchan

    Weezing

    Chansey

    Kangaskhan

    Scyther

    Electabuzz

    Pinsir

    Tauros

    Lapras

    Flareon

    Omastar

    Articuno

    Moltres

    C

    Beedrill

    Pidgeot

    Raticate

    Arbok

    Sandslash

    Wigglytuff

    Ninetales

    Venomoth

    Persian

    Primeape

    Rapidash

    Dewgong

    Kingler

    Electrode

    Marowak

    Rhydon

    Seaking

    Mr Mime

    Jynx

    Magmar

    Kabutops

    D

    Butterfree

    Parasect

    Farfetch'd

    Onix

    Lickitung

    Tangela

    Ditto

    Porygon

    Golbat

    The other stuff

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  4. MeatFeastMan

    MeatFeastMan Member

    Joined:
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    Messages:
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    Building a team!

    Now for teambuilding. Teambuilding isn't easy to explain, but I'll try my best. I assign each one of my 6 slots a role. I follow a few rules when I make my teams. The first is that I have a defensive core. What this means is I have at least 1 physical wall and at least 1 special wall in my team. By doing this, you can cover up a lot of your weaknesses by adding key resistances. So, I'm just gonna build a random team from the top of my head using all the info we have gathered so far.

    Let's start off with our physical wall. I'm looking for something with a high defense stat, at very least an average hp stat, along with the ability to wall key threats and take them out of the game. So we need to identify physical attackers which are going to cause serious damage. When looking at the A section of the tier list, we find that aerodactyl, dragonite, arcanine and gyarados are the big physical threats.

    Pick pokemon with high defense stats, ev them correctly in hp and defense and see how they stack up. We know that it is likely when competitive battling arrives that gyarados, due to his easy availability is going to be used a lot, so let's take him as an example and focus on walling him. When we look at gyarados on this page (https://pokefind.co/wiki/index0bad.php), it tells us a few things. One is his 4x weakness to electric and 2x weakness to rock. This could be useful if we manage to find a wall who can dish out electric or rock damage while not getting hit hard from gyarados' Aqua Tail and Ice Fang (His main physical attacks in this moveset).

    The other crucial thing here is that gyarados is more bulky than you may expect. With a 95 hp stat and 100 special defense, he can certainly take one special hit and then hit back. This shortens the search for a physical wall, because it means that we need to target it's average 79 defense as a weak point. So we want a high defense, but also decent when it comes to physical attack or something which can take advantage of those electric/rock weaknesses.

    The pokemon that comes to mind is Magneton. I agree, he doesn't look the best on paper. But he has 2 huge traits that make him so much more useful. One is his steel typing, making him the only steel type on the server and also making him extremely bulky despite his average stats. He resists so many different types, including ice (for ice fang) and is neutral to aqua tail. The other is his base 95 defense stat which is pretty good. And of course, gyarados is 4x weak to electric attacks from magneton.

    So, how do we transform this magneton into an awesome physical wall? See below to find out...
    ------------------------------------------------------------------

    Magneton

    Ability: Sturdy

    Nature: Modest/Bold

    Evs: 252 HP, 252 DEF,4 SpA

    Moves: Discharge, Flash Cannon, Thunder Wave, Metal Sound
    . upload_2017-3-21_18-11-28.png
    --------------------------------------------------------------------

    Time to explain how I made this magneton set. To be a physical wall, it needed to have maximum investment in HP and Defense Evs, so I went and invested 252 in hp, and the same in defense. The 4 extra is put into Special Attack. By using this ev spread, it makes the magneton as physically bulky as possible. Again, a bold nature could be used to increase defense by a further 10%, or alternatively if you feel he is bulky enough, using a modest nature so he can hit harder with special moves is a good option too.

    I chose discharge as my electric STAB move to get rid of our main threat, gyarados. Using the damage calculator (https://pokemonshowdown.com/damagecalc/ ) showed that a 252 attack/252 speed gyarados is ohko'd by a discharge from our magneton, while only taking about 40-50% from gyarados' aqua tail. Flash Cannon is used as a steel type STAB move to ensure we gain more coverage and can hit hard in most situations. Thunder Wave is very important, as it allows us to status other threats, including special attackers, and this can halt momentum. Metal Sound comes in handy occasionally because it can help magneton to break down those pokemon with high special defense.

    Of course, there are many more options than magneton for a physical wall, and magneton is certainly not the best choice. I used magneton because I know most of you would underestimate how good he was due to his mediocre stats and also that he is very nice to talk about :).

    Remember this thread was done before tms/hms were added, and when earthquake and similar moves are added in, magneton will struggle to wall gyarados. This was primarily used just to teach people how to think when picking pokemon to fulfil roles.

    Where do we go from here then?

    Picking the second pokemon for the team is easy, because you now have something to build around. We are going to decide on a special wall. This pokemon needs to have good special defense and a decent hp stat. As I mentioned earlier, the defensive core needs to try and cover as many weaknesses and resistances as possible. Magneton deals with most types quite well. However, looking at his type table, we find that he has weaknesses to fighting, fire and ground. We have a few options. Most fighting types tend to be physical, which is an issue. However, they can easily be outsped with our sweepers, and I have always noticed that fighting types don't tend to be that popular, particularly when it comes to generation 1.

    Ground types can be dealt with by a flying type, so we could either look for a flying type wall or a flying type sweeper. Most flyers tend to play offensively, so we will leave that to one of our sweepers. Fire types will be the thing we are gonna focus on. So with that in mind, let's choose a water type special wall. Remember, that pokemon must have high special defense and high hp. So, after little thinking, here is our saviour! Vaporeon!




    upload_2017-3-21_18-11-28.png




    Vaporeon offers exactly what we want. She has a great 130 base hp stat and a decent 95 base special defense stat. One of the best things is her pure water-typing. This means she is only weak to electric moves and grass moves, both of which are covered by magneton (Which resists both). She also makes for a good counter to arcanine, who is the physical attacker that magneton can't wall.

    So by looking at vaporeon, what special attackers does she do well at stopping? Using the calculator again, we find that with 252 hp evs and 252 special defense evs along with a calm nature, she takes a mere 29% (at max) from alakazam's psychic, a max of 27% damage from gengar's shadow ball, and even manages to take a full power thunderbolt from jolteon with 40% hp or so left to spare!

    Of course, I don't recommend using her against jolteon, because she will lose in that battle. Gengar and Alakazam however are totally stopped in their tracks by vaporeon. And as we all know, the amount of people who use gengar and alakazam is well, a lot. Don't forget that jolteon and zapdos can be countered by switching to magneton.

    So, now we have our defensive 'core' complete. It is important that the defensive core are able to help each other, otherwise known as 'synergy'. Magneton deals with vaporeon's weaknesses, and vaporeon counters most of magneton's weaknesses, making this a decent combination.

    From here, I'm not gonna go any further. But what I will tell you is that you need to follow a format for your team. As I said at the start of this section, every pokemon has to fill a role. Here's how I (for the most part) build my teams:

    1.Lead pokemon – Something that can support teammates and/or start the attack.
    2. Physical Attacker/sweeper
    3. Special attacker/Sweeper
    4. Physical Wall
    5. Special Wall
    6.A pokemon of your choice, I tend to pick another wall here to balance things out, but you can go more offensive by picking another attacker/sweeper if you wanted. Find which suits your team best.


    That is my basic format for building teams. You can change this if you want to, however I wouldn't advise on doing so. If you want any advice on any pokemon sets, teams or anything, just post down below and I'll check em out and try my best to help.

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    Yes, I agree that this was very wordy. But I wanted to make sure people understood everything fully. I'm not the best writer, and I'm certainly not the best at explaining things. Again, if you have any questions, drop em down below.

    So yeah, thanks for reading and I hoped you learned something from my long and detailed rant xD

    I'll be doing more on competitive battling, and doing a second part to this guide later about the actual battles themselves and how to play well!
     
  5. Madara_

    Madara_ Well-Known Member

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    Great post, keep up the good work! Very extensive amount of information.
     
  6. MeatFeastMan

    MeatFeastMan Member

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    Thankyou :) Took a lot of thinking and slow typing haha. I am basically the slowest typer of all time. I am sure of it xD
     
  7. drex

    drex New Member

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    Using the chart you can find your opponent pokemon weakness and beat them easily. You can get the full strength and weakness chart from this website.
     
  8. _Bunstop_

    _Bunstop_ Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    Thread Locked due to Necroposting