How to make the game more fair but still profitable

Discussion in 'Suggestions' started by Lucar1o, Jul 24, 2017.

  1. Voultronix

    Voultronix Crazy Active Member

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    I agree with you on climate change but that's a topic for another day. And all features but 1 are available to free to play players. That one feature is owning a type of paid pokemon , which isn't a game play feature in anyway although it slightly affects the way you play the game. Look at /cbattle top , one of he top players is free to play , it's possible.
     
  2. BlueJerryLee

    BlueJerryLee New Member

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    Introduction
    Hi, don't mind me just butting in here to add some insight on Lucar1o's side, I've been playing on Pokéfind for around 2 months and already I can agree that Pokéfind has a very immense p2w influence on the server. I have been a f2p player here on Pokéfind but with that the odds were constantly stacked against me.
    Sales, economy and business
    Sales were hard, because since I had no access to /ivs I had to pay 500 coins each time to check the ivs, and most of the time the Pokemon I iv checked weren't sold anyway. I was unable to get into the shiny market, searching for 1 week and still being unsuccessful even though I tried my hardest and offered my best (my best wasn't enough because players online want shinies for shinies) as a player here, I feel very forced into buying a rank or an egg and donating to this server. My mindset is "I have to buy a rank or buy some eggs to be eligible to trade with others, and banter for really awesome Pokémon, strong, good iv and good nature cool Pokemon. I've encountered countless amounts of players with 2-5 duplicates of a shiny, even if it wasn't that good, like a Shuckle or a Pineco, and STILL being picky about it. Shiny for shiny. I guess that's the way this economy works.
    Difficulty of acquiring good ivs and a good nature rare without spending cash
    I can also account for many other players and one of my friends even, who are struggling in the market and unable to get their hands on good iv, good nature rare Pokémon without having to spend any money. This p2w aspect of the game is really pushy and like Lucar1o said, makes players not want to donate for the good of the server but to primarily be SOMEWHAT able to banter, trade and enjoy business with other players. When f2p players only seem to be able to bargain with semi-rare Pokémon and Uballs.
    The golden ticket
    If random spawning shinies, even with a slight chance were to be allowed in the server, average, hard working, challenging players would be able to have their hard work of searching and patience pay off with a big, golden ticket to the shiny economy. You may think that you can acquire strong, good iv and good nature Pokemon from just wild searching, but also as Lucar1o said, you have to be incredibly lucky to get a high IV good nature rare Pokemon. It just seems really hard for average players to trade and banter with the higher-up donors.
    Conclusion
    To conclude, I believe that there are too many advantageous aspects towards donating, /ivs, /evs are incredibly important tools for almost every Pokémon trainer and having to go to a certain location and paying 500 coins just seems like a inconvenience for players. I understand /pokeheal and /fly, because they are very powerful tools but not important to playing from a competitive aspect. Also with shinies being unable to spawn in the wild average players have very little chance and rely on multiple days of work, patience and resilience to have some form of a chance of obtaining a shiny, and being once again, granted a golden ticket to the shiny economy.

    Here was my insight on this debate, I hope you didn't find this read a total waste of time. I do hope that Pokéfind decides to change up some of these conditions that are incredibly disadvantageous towards the average f2p player compared to p2w player privileges that are vastly better in condition. Thank you for reading - BlueJerryLee
     
  3. Aurvox

    Aurvox New Member

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    I think you guys are all forgetting that this server was made to open the Pokemon games to those unable to download Pixelmon (R.I.P.) or without access to the original games. But like many companies and businesses in our world, it was intended to make a profit. If you truly want to make a difference how this server is run, don't whine about how it has some unfair qualities. Lucar1o, it is my personal opinion (that I'm entitled to) that Pokefind was created with players and profit in mind. I don't see a problem with a server offering players the option to spend a few dollars or a lot of dollars to buy a few extra pixels that won't help them at all in life. I can tell you're an educated person and I'm suggesting that maybe you take a step back and really look at what you're arguing about. A minecraft Pokemon server. You can whine about unfairness, and support arguments, and tear other people down on forums (like I have no doubt you'll try to do to me), but it doesn't change the fact that massive changes in the server system is out of your personal control. If people chose not to spend money on this server and enjoy the "challenge" then that's their choice. I understand that there are some people who can't spend money on servers for several reasons. In my opinion, they are better off for it. Much better to spend that money on something that could really help you. However, if people choose to spends hundreds of dollars and hours on it, then that's their choice too. To criticize the server owners, developers, and upkeepers for it seems like a cruddy thing to do (In my opinion). All they are paying for is an experience. A new way to experience Pokemon that was provided by the Pokefind server. To conclude, I openly invite you to tear apart this paragraph. You can make that choice to waste your time looking for every flaw in my reasoning. There probably is. Prove your hubris by proving my thinking wrong and your ideologies superior to what currently exists. I don't know about you, but I don't think it's worth it.

    'Till Next Time,
    -Aur
     
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  4. Voultronix

    Voultronix Crazy Active Member

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    Honestly the best way to look at it thank you <3
     
  5. Lucar1o

    Lucar1o New Member

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    I think you guys are all forgetting that this server was made to open the Pokemon games to those unable to download Pixelmon (R.I.P.)
    And? What difference does this make?

    or without access to the original games. But like many companies and businesses in our world, it was intended to make a profit.

    It's almost as if I gave reasons why implementing my changes would increase a companies profit and expressed understanding that they do want to make profit, and would obviously still keep some more fair p2w elements.

    If youtruly want to make a difference how this server is run, don't whine about how it has some unfair qualities.
    What do you expect me to do, not point out what needs to be changed, how else am I to impact how the server is run?

    Lucar1o, it is my personal opinion (that I'm entitled to) that Pokefind was created with players and profit in mind
    Ok? But opinions can be wrong. It's my opinion that it's not. Opinions do not mean anything without facts statistics or evidence behind them and I used facts which are used with the f2p model in many other games and servers.

    I don't see a problem with a server offering players the option to spend a few dollars or a lot of dollars to buy a few extra pixels that won't help them at all in life

    Red Herring
    Ignoratio elenchi

    (also known as: beside the point, misdirection [form of], changing the subject, false emphasis, the Chewbacca defense, irrelevant conclusion, irrelevant thesis, clouding the issue, ignorance of refutation)

    Description: Attempting to redirect the argument to another issue to which the person doing the redirecting can better respond. While it is similar to the avoiding the issue fallacy, the red herring is a deliberate diversion of attention with the intention of trying to abandon the original argument.

    Logical Form:

    Argument A is presented by person 1.

    Person 2 introduces argument B.

    Argument A is abandoned.

    Example #1:

    Mike: It is morally wrong to cheat on your spouse, why on earth would you have done that?

    Ken: But what is morality exactly?

    Mike: It’s a code of conduct shared by cultures.

    Ken: But who creates this code?...

    We arn't talking about real life, we are talking about the server. No servers give IRL benefits for there ranks so your argument is invalid.

    I can tell you're an educated person and I'm suggesting that maybe you take a step back and really look at what you're arguing about

    I can tell you're an educated person and I'm suggesting that maybe you take a step back and really look at what you're arguing about. A minecraft Pokemon server.
    So I'm not allowed to criticize it? I don't understand your point at all.

    You can whine about unfairness, and support arguments, and tear other people down on forums (like I have no doubt you'll try to do to me)
    Your arguments are all very fallacious, you appeal to emotion quite a lot. Yes I'm going to tear down your argument, this is a debate on a topic I have posted which, when everyone has agreed on one point, then the logical step is for the Admins to consider it, and then ignore, or grant the suggestion.

    but it doesn't change the fact that massive changes in the server system is out of your personal control. If people chose not to spend money on this server and enjoy the "challenge" then that's their choice
    There's no challenge in pay walls because you can't endlessly grind to get to it, you can't get to it unless you pay money. I don't like how your phrasing your arguments at all. You appear to be attacking my character by using emotional appeal "Tear other people down", instead of saying "Tear down other peoples arguments", and the mocking use of "challenge".

    To criticize the server owners, developers, and upkeepers for it seems like a cruddy thing to do (In my opinion).
    I actually complimented the developers quite a lot but that is besides the point. If you think critisism is a "cruddy" thing to do, then I hope you never, ever, ever become an artist, or a politician. You know what happens when people are trapped in their own little bubble and aren't criticized? The bad star wars movies. Criticism is a natural part of having a business and criticism is good. No one is above criticism.

    To conclude, I openly invite you to tear apart this paragraph

    I openly invite you to critique, or how you put it, tear apart this reply too, as criticism is a good thing.

    You can make that choice to waste your time looking for every flaw in my reasoning.
    Oh I thought you were being genuine, but then I read the next sentence and found out you are just being spiteful. How nice.

    Prove your hubris by proving my thinking wrong and your ideologies superior to what currently exists. I don't know about you, but I don't think it's worth it.
    Cool.

    When other people replied to me they had the common decency to not be a condescending person and just state their arguments.
     
  6. Voultronix

    Voultronix Crazy Active Member

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    Actually a good critical tear down of the argument.
    However at this point it feels like you are talking to a wall , Ill admit its fun to debate the matter however at this point it has just become an argument among players and I dont think admins/owners would read this long debate as it would consume and awful amount of time. Your points are valid and I commend you for bringing them up however the server may choose to do as it wishes as long as it does not break minecraft eula. The players ultimately decide the out come of the server and as far as it seems the server continues to grow , despite some obvious flaws.
     
  7. Lucar1o

    Lucar1o New Member

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    However at this point it feels like you are talking to a wall
    Or a rock, badum tss- b-because your a regi-

    Ill admit its fun to debate the matter however at this point it has just become an argument among players and I dont think admins/owners would read this long debate as it would consume and awful amount of time. Your points are valid and I commend you for bringing them up however the server may choose to do as it wishes as long as it does not break minecraft eula. The players ultimately decide the out come of the server and as far as it seems the server continues to grow , despite some obvious flaws.
    Ayy. Thank you. If the admins see that I have won out using logic and still don't want to change, despite the benifits it would bring to there players and themselves I can do nothing but commend them for having stubbornness even larger than mine, and ask why they have a suggestions page in the first place.
     
  8. MysticDoesPvp

    MysticDoesPvp Well-Known Member

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    This thread is just turning into a full out debate now XD
     
  9. Lars

    Lars Former Pokefind Admin / Staff Manager

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    You betcha I did
     
  10. Lucar1o

    Lucar1o New Member

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    You just missed it!
    Oh snap, what did you think?
     
  11. Voultronix

    Voultronix Crazy Active Member

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    It became to big to ignore. But it would be interesting to hear your opinion on the matter !
     
  12. Lucar1o

    Lucar1o New Member

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    ^
     
  13. iwin1302

    iwin1302 Active Member

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    I don't agree with the first one. Some of them don't have money to buy a ranks and then buy an eggs. It is also donating as buying a rank and buying an egg.
     
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  14. Lucar1o

    Lucar1o New Member

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    Rephrase that? I don't understand what you said.
     
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  15. iwin1302

    iwin1302 Active Member

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    Well, buying a rank and buying eggs are both donating.
     
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  16. Ordaine

    Ordaine Member

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    This is not pay to win.
    Shiny Pokemon are 100% aesthetic. Being shiny offers zero benefit other than changing the color of how your Pokemon looks. As this is not natural "vanilla" Pokemon and it is not Pixelmon, it is understandable that they are not natural gen even though I do agree that there should be some what of a natural spawn chance.

    Incorrect. There are NPC's in certain towns where you can check them at a coin cost. And at the cost of 500 coins, it is VERY easily affordable.
    Buying a rank just gives you that extra perk of being able to check them on demand. Perks of being a donator.
    Not pay to win. This would be "pay to have a better quality of life".

    Probably the only point I can 100% agree with. Pages should expand as you fill your pokedex, just like it would if you were actually playing the Nintendo games.
    With the amount of Pokemon currently in-game, at least 16 pages should be available. (obviously you can make it so each donator rank gets X number of pages so there is that extra bit of donating incentive)

    This point is confusing as it entirely defeats the purpose of having donator perks.
    Really the only thing that makes this "unfair" would be the level 30 boost.
    You pay for a rank, you get the perks. Which is exactly what they are. Perks of donating.
    /Fly, kits, /ev, /iv.
    Donators having these doesn't make it unfair for non donators because they have to walk to a Pokecenter to heal or find the NPC to check their pokemon's stats.
    The game is still challenging whether you have these or not. You can't pay to instantly fill your entire dex. Having these commands just make it easier. (which is the entire point of donator perks, to encourage players to donate to the server)

    All players have access to the same thing. There is no roadblock separating donators from regular players.

    Honestly most of your points just seem like complaints because you can't donate.
    I am not a donator. I am a default. I've also taken the time to read through the perks and such and check out each game.
    It seems pretty fair to me.

    My only complaints of "unfairness" would be lack of natural spawn shiny pokemon and the smallish pc, but that is what suggestions are for.
     
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  17. Lucar1o

    Lucar1o New Member

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    But I find it fundementally wrong. My opinion.
    Yes I know I addressed and agreed later in the comment chain
    <3
    I didn't make that point that's why, it was a quote from someone else
    Do they have access to events? To enough pages in pc? Etc
    You don't know how I think, so you are wrong, I have perfectly enough money to donate, I choose not too, and I explained why.
    Indeed, that's why I'm suggesting these changes
     
  18. Lucar1o

    Lucar1o New Member

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    Yes, but what is your point from that?
     
  19. Ordaine

    Ordaine Member

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    Your opinions are mostly just complaints and just because you think it is wrong, doesn't mean it is.
    Just because you want something, doesn't mean someone is going to give it to you. People already hand out enough participation trophies.
    And all the points I touched on were from your original post, so all the quotes I used were directly from you.

    We do not know about event access as events are very new and really have never been done before. (Yes it is listed on the shop, however literally no one knows until it is actually announced.)

    The fact of the matter is there is currently really nothing wrong with donator perks and there is no "Money wall" as everyone can do the same thing as everyone else. And everything that is there, is to encourage people to donate without offering unfair advantages.
    (Quality of life is not an unfair advantage)

    If you want more space, donate.
    If you want kits, donate.
    If you want to fly, donate.
    Perks of helping out the server.

    It's really not a hard concept to understand if you actually go to the shop and read the ranks. Nothing is "pay-to-win".
    Complaining to complain and debating a stale point is honestly frivolous. If you have an actual point to touch on that so many others haven't already posted about, it might be taken more seriously.

    (Expanding PC space and natural spawn shinies were your only good topics)
     
  20. Lucar1o

    Lucar1o New Member

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    Your opinions are mostly just complaints and just because you think it is wrong, doesn't mean it is.
    Where's the evidence?

    Just because you want something, doesn't mean someone is going to give it to you. People already hand out enough participation trophies.

    I've never had nor seen a participation trophy in my life, also it's not a participation trophy. It's like as if you made capturing pokemon a p2w feature and then you said "Stop being so greedy, gosh, just because you want it doesn't mean your gonna get it, too many people get free basic functionality already, probably for a rea- no- no, your greedy!".

    And all the points I touched on were from your original post, so all the quotes I used were directly from you.
    Mmkay?

    We do not know about event access as events are very new and really have never been done before. (Yes it is listed on the shop, however literally no one knows until it is actually announced.)
    Events in every other server (Fathers day event on another server which was for everyone gave 4 nuggets (gives money), a male change, a female change and a shiny converter, pokemon go (which this has similarities to) gives very rare or legendary pokemon.

    The fact of the matter is there is currently really nothing wrong with donator perks and there is no "Money wall" as everyone can do the same thing as everyone else. And everything that is there, is to encourage people to donate without offering unfair advantages.
    (Quality of life is not an unfair advantage)

    Pages, Events etc

    If you want more space, donate.

    I deleted all the other ones in this list that I didn't mention, also:
    strawman
    You misrepresented someone's argument to make it easier to attack.
    By exaggerating, misrepresenting, or just completely fabricating someone's argument, it's much easier to present your own position as being reasonable, but this kind of dishonesty serves to undermine honest rational debate.

    Example: After Will said that we should put more money into health and education, Warren responded by saying that he was surprised that Will hates our country so much that he wants to leave it defenceless by cutting military spending.

    It's really not a hard concept to understand if you actually go to the shop and read the ranks. Nothing is "pay-to-win".
    Complaining to complain and debating a stale point is honestly frivolous. If you have an actual point to touch on that so many others haven't already posted about, it might be taken more seriously.

    Oh I was arguing for a fair f2p model, if you want to argue about p2w and make it much more hard for yourself, feel free.

    List of p2w things that I haven't already mentioned (and I don't want to change because I just want a fair f2p model)
    PokéWars Kits
    Eggs
    Pokémon Given in ranks
    Kit Bundles
    Money given by ranks

    Complaining to complain
    Complaining is saying something negative without showing how to improve it. I am. You could go to any suggestion thread and say "O your just complaining to complain stop being so negative".

    and debating a stale point is honestly frivolous
    It's only stale because I have someone repeatedly bring up the same points which I repeatedly refute. Even if it is stale, there's nothing wrong with bringing it up again. The government in the UK allows the same denied issue to be brought up 6 months later. Nursery tax funds always come up (and sadly always get denied, guess it's not in the budget).

    us. If you have an actual point to touch on that so many others haven't already posted about, it might be taken more seriously.
    So what you are saying is that because other people have tried (and perhaps failed) to change the system, that means I can no longer try to do so with my (if I don't say so myself) discussion, debate, and arguing skills?

    (Expanding PC space and natural spawn shinies were your only good topics)

    Well that was 50% of my points, so hey, I broke even! :)